Can a True Mason be a Christian?

jfritzyb · **Joined:** Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:27 pm **Posts:** 145

What do you all think? Can a True Mason Be a Christian? Why or why not?

(Thanks go to Anita for this one!

)

Anita · **Posted:** Sun Dec 27, 2009 4:01 am

Why dont we start with what a "True Mason" actually is...

jfritzyb · **Joined:** Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:27 pm **Posts:** 145

Anita wrote:

Why dont we start with what a "True Mason" actually is...

Quote:

"Masonry, around whose altars the Christian, the Hebrew, the Moslem, the Brahmin, the followers of Confucius and Zoroaster, can assemble as brethren and unite in prayer to the one God who is above. ALL the Baalim[the gods], must needs leave it to each of its initiates to look for the foundation of his faith and hope to the written scriptures of his own religion." (Morals and Dogma, Albert Pike, 1956, page 226)

Nightmare · **Posted:** Mon Dec 28, 2009 2:45 am

Anita wrote:

Why dont we start with what a "True Mason" actually is...

Frankly, we don't know. Only an initiated Mason would know and due to their oaths they certainly wouldn't be talking about such matters. Anything said about the "truth behind the Masons" is basically conjecture and speculation.

Anita · **Posted:** Mon Dec 28, 2009 4:15 pm

Hmmm wish Fiannawolf was still here as he would be able to contribute quite well in this thread - if he cared too that is...

Nightmare · **Posted:** Tue Dec 29, 2009 12:52 am

Haven't talked to him in ages either

Anita · **Posted:** Tue Dec 29, 2009 6:42 am

Oh I get to talk with the bloke, just not here anymore...hasnt cancelled his account - maybe he will return like the prodigal or something :lol:

Theophilus · **Posted:** Tue Dec 29, 2009 7:42 am

Nightmare wrote:

Anita wrote:

Why dont we start with what a "True Mason" actually is...

Frankly, we don't know. Only an initiated Mason would know and due to their oaths they certainly wouldn't be talking about such matters. Anything said about the "truth behind the Masons" is basically conjecture and speculation.

NM, you've summed up why this is a dubious question to answer. Wiki has a basic article that describes in public terms the generic statements of belief in a Supreme Being, Grand Architechitect of the Universe and as long as the terms are very loosely defined allows a broad array of theistic people to join, without overtly compromising their religion. If it were truly left that loose and undefined, then I suppose it works for social fraternity purposes. That said, the wiki article also includes criticisms to include religious criticisms of Free Masonry. If the oaths the Lodge requires their members to take are in conflict with the basic tenents of their religion, then I see a basis for criticism. Being on the outside, I can't say for certain, and that's the way I'd guess the Lodge likes it. It would be nice if they could be truly open o this subject to clear up the criticisms though.

Any word on Fianna-Wolf?

-Theophilus

Nightmare · **Posted:** Tue Dec 29, 2009 7:51 am

Theophilus wrote:

It would be nice if they could be truly open o this subject to clear up the criticisms though.

I doubt it would work though really. It's just like the Roswell story or the present debate on health care reform - they could come out every last detail about Free Masonry and there would still be a substantial amount of people that would prefer their own beliefs and paranoid fantasies to the truth. At this stage I would say they're better served by maintaining secrecy.

Anita · **Posted:** Tue Dec 29, 2009 6:20 pm

Theophilus wrote:

Nightmare wrote:

Anita wrote:

Why dont we start with what a "True Mason" actually is...

Frankly, we don't know. Only an initiated Mason would know and due to their oaths they certainly wouldn't be talking about such matters. Anything said about the "truth behind the Masons" is basically conjecture and speculation.

NM, you've summed up why this is a dubious question to answer. Wiki has a basic article that describes in public terms the generic statements of belief in a Supreme Being, Grand Architechitect of the Universe and as long as the terms are very loosely defined allows a broad array of theistic people to join, without overtly compromising their religion. If it were truly left that loose and undefined, then I suppose it works for social fraternity purposes. That said, the wiki article also includes criticisms to include religious criticisms of Free Masonry. If the oaths the Lodge requires their members to take are in conflict with the basic tenents of their religion, then I see a basis for criticism. Being on the outside, I can't say for certain, and that's the way I'd guess the Lodge likes it. It would be nice if they could be truly open o this subject to clear up the criticisms though.

Any word on Fianna-Wolf?

-Theophilus

Yup chats with Fianna this morning and asked him to do a quick drive by here and fill us in on the whole mason thing. He may - dont know.

Theophilus · **Posted:** Tue Dec 29, 2009 8:11 pm

It's good to know that someone we know is in contact with FW.

Theophilus · **Posted:** Tue Dec 29, 2009 8:13 pm

Nightmare wrote:

At this stage I would say they're better served by maintaining secrecy.

Probably so, but at a cost of discussing matters openly.

jfritzyb · **Joined:** Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:27 pm **Posts:** 145

Cool!

However I wouldn't be surprised if he refused; oaths are "binding" and if broken, incur VERY gruesome and harsh sentences! I could list the oaths right here but, once again, they're a bit...gruesome. I quoted from Albert Pike b/c if I'm not mistaken, he is the founder of Freemasonry and the book Morals and Dogma is used for teaching masons.

Anita · **Posted:** Wed Dec 30, 2009 4:59 am

Hmmmm yes....

On a rather random note, I do often wonder why their halls are windowless - or if there are windows (prolly to adhere to council regulations) they are heavily frosted or painted....

jfritzyb · **Joined:** Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:27 pm **Posts:** 145

Anita wrote:

I do often wonder why their halls are windowless - or if there are windows (prolly to adhere to council regulations) they are heavily frosted or painted....

Quote:

Every Masonic Lodge is a temple of religion and its teachings are instruction in religion For here are inculcated disinterestedness, affection, toleration, devolvedness, patriotism, truth, a generous sympathy with those who suffer and mourn, pity for the fallen, mercy for the erring, relief for those in want, Faith, Hope, Charity. Here we meet as brethren to learn to know and love each other. Here we greet each other gladly, are lenient to each other’s faults, regardful of each other’s feelings, ready to relieve each other’s wants. ~~ Albert Pike

Note that our definition of the underlined words may not be their definition of those words; those words, rather, are used to intentionally mislead folks who are "uninitiated." Not only that, I'm sure that there are other things they do in secret at those "temples" that they don't want the "uninitiated" to see--simple reason why EVERY lodge either has no windows or if they do, the windows are clouded.

Quote:

Originally the Mysteries were meant to be the beginning of a new life of reason and virtue. The
initiated or esoteric companions were taught the doctrine of the One Supreme God, the theory of death and eternity, the hidden mysteries of Nature, the prospect of the ultimate restoration of the soul to that state of perfection from which it had fallen, its immortality, and the states of reward and punishment after death. The uninitiated were deemed Profane, unworthy of public employment or private confidence, sometimes prescribed as Atheists, and certain of everlasting punishment beyond the grave. All persons were initiated into the lesser Mysteries; but few attained the greater, in which the true spirit of them, and most of their secret doctrineswere hidden. The veil of secrecy was impenetrable, sealed by oaths and penalties the most tremendous and appalling.

Albert Pike on where the inspiration of Freemasonry came from.

~~

Fiannawolf · **Posted:** Wed Dec 30, 2009 6:08 pm

Whats shakin people? Been awhile, don't know why you didn't summon me sooner :lol:

Yes I am a brother mason since last we all spoke. I am at work so I can't really adress this right now. soon though.

btw how are you all

Theophilus · **Posted:** Wed Dec 30, 2009 6:30 pm

Hey FW,

How have you been. I'll write more soon, but my son is waiting for his turn on the computer.

-Theophilus

jfritzyb · **Joined:** Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:27 pm **Posts:** 145

Hey, Fianna...

Just curious; what level are you at?

Also...what's the "big secret"?

Anita · **Posted:** Wed Dec 30, 2009 11:36 pm

(((FW))) Yay :mrgreen:

You made it! Even if it is for a visit. Want a cuppa?

Im very interested why you joined the Masons? Was it for community?

Nightmare · **Posted:** Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:33 am

Fiannawolf wrote:

Whats shakin people? Been awhile, don't know why you didn't summon me sooner :lol:

Yes I am a brother mason since last we all spoke. I am at work so I can't really adress this right now. soon though.

btw how are you all

Fianna, bro! Long time no see

Hope all is good with you.

jfritzyb wrote:

Also...what's the "big secret"?

FW is an honorable man, thusly I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for him to divulge anything he is under oath not to.

Anita · **Posted:** Thu Dec 31, 2009 3:43 am

That is true. FW is a person who is descreet and carefull with what he says. He would not betray his brotherhood for a mere forum discussion :wink:

I am hoping for general discussion from him around being a Mason.

Fiannawolf · **Posted:** Thu Dec 31, 2009 4:34 pm

The "big secret" eh? Only one way to find that out my friend, and it isn't through asking me what it is. I can however tell you that Masonry is compatible with most any religion. The only men we do not allow are men or poor charater or atheists.

Also Albert Pike is no founder of Masonry. He was the head of the juristiction of the south and a big deal in the Scottish Rite, but thats it.

WonderGoon · **Posted:** Thu Dec 31, 2009 7:24 pm

Fiannawolf wrote:

The "big secret" eh? Only one way to find that out my friend, and it isn't through asking me what it is. I can however tell you that Masonry is compatible with most any religion. The only men we do not allow are men or poor charater or atheists.

Hi, Fiannawolf. We've not met before. I'm WonderGoon, (Goon to my friends). Nice to meet you.

A quick question, if I might. Hopefully this won't cause any problems for you as regards your oaths. When you say "poor character," I am curious to know what qualifies as "poor character?" Could you cite an example, please?

Thank you,
Goon

jfritzyb · **Joined:** Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:27 pm **Posts:** 145

Fiannawolf wrote:

Also Albert Pike is no founder of Masonry. He was the head of the juristiction of the south and a big deal in the Scottish Rite, but thats it.

Wasn't he a member of the Supreme Council?

...And what degree are you?

Fiannawolf · **Posted:** Sun Jan 03, 2010 11:37 pm

WonderGoon: Poor chratar would be a lier, cheater, oath breaker, criminal record, beats his wife, etc....etc...

jfritzyb: Albert Pike was Sovereign Grand Commander of the Scottish Rite's Southern Jurisdiction from 1850something to his death.

I am an Entered Aprentice Mason, with my Fellowcraft test coming up shortly.

Can a True Mason be a Christian?

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